My first Composite

[russ_c]

Okay,

So here it is...my first composite and I am proud to say that I used Shake on my G4 to do it. The composite is still a WIP, but I thought I would post a still image and my novice node tree for you experts to critique until my ears bleed. The project was for the cgchallenge.com Sept. VFX challenge I work on with electroganic until it got shafted...here is the thread:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85545

The image is comprised of photographs, live footage, painted matte elements, and CG created in Maya. Critical feedback is always appreciated. Oh, I have posted two images with different Gama settings. The first looks good on my mac, and the second was an attempt to compensate for Gama variations on PC's. The result may still be to dark or to light:confused: . If anyone nows how I can insure an accurate image post I would really like to know. The original color correction was done on an NTSC view monitor so I hope the accuracy of the contrast will hold up on a video reel. I will attempt to post a .mov in demo reel style of the composite later this week.


Thanks,

Russell

http://www.cpfx.com/Carnival-Composite.jpg


http://www.entropygraphics.com/VFXChallenge/Carnival-Composite-v4.jpg

http://www.cpfx.com/Node-Tree.gif

[russ_c]

Huh,

My compostie must be so terrible...or the gama adjusted images look so terrible that nobody cares to respond... Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum Hugh. Could you maybe move this thread into the WIP section?

Thanks,

Russell

[arvid]

Yep looks pretty dark :( And it's not that easy to see what's going on just by looking at nameless nodes ;) The only thing I can see is that you have several nodes in a row taking matte input from the same source. It's more edge-friendly to use a keymix node in that situation. It's pretty well described in the do's and dont's in the manual actually.
Oh btw, it doesn't look terrible by a longshot, but it's not easy to make it out thats all ;)

[SdFX]

It's a very impressive first composite - What ever happened to "starting small"? ;) I followed your work on cgtalk and found it very impressive - and very ambitious! My only crit is the choice of colors - mayby they suit the theme, but I think they kill the creepiness somewhat. But hey, that's a matter of taste - you're obviously very talented and I'm really looking forward to seeing it all move! Please join the challenges here, much more fun! :)

[TrenZ62]

All I can say is wow. This is your first time trying this?

[russ_c]

Arvid:

I will take another snap shot of the node tree a bit closer to get the names...You will probably jump my case for not nameing each node with some signicatant title, but I tossed this together in 3 days so I will have to go back and clean house a bit. Yes, I do fear that I did a lot of don'ts. Example: At first I didn't realize the 2D move node had scale...I am an idiot...so I was doning 2D moves and then a scale node, duh!

Anyway, I will try to make new gama adjustments...was it the second image that was too dark?


Trenz62:

Yes, this is my first composite. I preped my self with a few books on the theory of compositing and glazed over the pelcan books training guide for shake the weekend before. The rest was just making something simple and then building on top of that. This node tree got way out of control compared to what I thought I was starting...very satisfying though and the best learning experience. I only wish I could work with better footage sources:rolleyes: .

Thanks everyone,

Russell

[russ_c]

Sdfx:

Thanks for the crit and encouragment. Before getting into that last challenge I reviewed all the past challenges and was looking forward to going up against you guys...I may just have to enter the next VFX challenge here if I get the chance. I have been to busy attempting to get empolyed. Oh, and I do have problems thinking small which results in not getting anything done...at least this composite is on its way

Arvid:

here is a monstrous image of my node tree for your review. I thought I would point out that my novice mind forgot to unpremultiply some 3d render images before colorcorrection...I at least learned that by the time I got it put together!

http://www.cpfx.com/Forum_Postings/Super-Node-Tree.gif

[SdFX]

"I have been to busy attempting to get empolyed"

Yikes, that sounds uncomfortable - if you do get get empolyed, let me know and I'll mail you a 3x subdivision surfaces! ;)

Sorry, couldn't resist...:angel:

[Hugh]

Originally posted by russ_c
At first I didn't realize the 2D move node had scale...I am an idiot...so I was doning 2D moves and then a scale node, duh!

I don't know how long you've been using Shake, but you may have noticed that some nodes in the Color and Transform tabs have a little 'C' in the corner.....

These are nodes that will be concatenated together - so if you have a scale and then a pan, it will actually do this as one move. This means that if you scale it to be tiny, and then back up again, you will still have the same quality image. If you scaled it down, then had a null node (something like a blur node with nothing happening) and then back in again, then you would lose a significant amount of quality.

Try this: Checker -> Scale -> Blur -> Scale

Set the first scale to 0.01 and the second to 100 (and make sure the Blur node is set to 0 blur). When you view the second Scale node, it will be a grey blob. Now ignore the blur node (select it and press 'i') and you'll see the checker looking perfect....

The colour nodes will do the same - so taking the brightness right down and then back up won't lose quality.

Of course, even though both transform and colour nodes have 'C's on them, you can't concatenate a scale and a brightness ;)

[arvid]

Originally posted by russ_c
Arvid:

I will take another snap shot of the node tree a bit closer to get the names...You will probably jump my case for not nameing each node with some signicatant title, but I tossed this together in 3 days so I will have to go back and clean house a bit. Yes, I do fear that I did a lot of don'ts. Example: At first I didn't realize the 2D move node had scale...I am an idiot...so I was doning 2D moves and then a scale node, duh!

Anyway, I will try to make new gama adjustments...was it the second image that was too dark?


The second image is bright enough, but you should keep it the way you think it looks good by all means. Just too bad everyones monitors isn't calibrated the same ;)
I usually dont name each node unless it has specific importance, like an expression or a link so I can locate it quickly, the default names are good enough for most situations.
Like Hugh said, concatenating nodes is zero extra rendering time since the renderer optimizes the script automatically and compounds the transforms into 1, it's only a matter of readability vs. messyness :thumbsup: I tend to bunch nodes together more tightly and make more of a visual tree-structure with obvious branches to avoid too many noodles crossing over each other. It will improve readability IMO and make each group of nodes its own little branch on the tree. You could also group nodes together with G but I'm not a huge fan of that. Good work :)

[Hugh]

noodles... such a great name ;)

So, out of interest, what noodle strength do people generally use?

I persoally like somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2 - to give them a little bit of curve, but still have them straight enough to be obvious where they are going without turning them into a bowl of spaghetti (or should that be a bowl of noodles...)


Oh, and I definately agree with Arvid about splitting the tree up into sections - that tree you've got there seems like a mass of nodes and noodles - and there's no obvious structure. I generally have groups of nodes connected by long noodles...

[arvid]

I'm happy with the default tension actually :D

Anyone for lunch? :tongueinc

[Aruna]

Nice soup Arvid. :) My noodle strength is around .25, and the color density is light grey, at around .33. To comment on your comp russ, I quite like it. Would love to see it in motion, but it's got a definite surreal quality that looks like something out of a comic book.. Scooby Doo comes to mind.. The vibrant colors etc. I like the brighter one.. It works nicely on a computer monitor, not sure how it would look on a TV.

Post some more wip when you get the chance!

[russ_c]

Thanks for all your commentary guys.

So I have put together a demo style .mov of my and electroganic's work thus far on the Carnival WIP. Maybe someone would be interested in d/ling to check it out. Sorry, the final animation hasn't been worked out due to the drastic transformations of objects and texture issues. Aruna, I "borrowed" a technique from your 2003 reel for the ending composite layers...please be forgiving.

It is compressed with Mpeg-4, let me know if it is terribly dark, to large, ect.

Thanks again,

Russell

Carnival WIP.mov (13.7MB) (http://www.cpfx.com/Forum_Postings/Carnival WIP.mov)