Welcome VFX supervisors

[arvid]

If you're about to shoot a vfx shot and have thoughts about how to best prepare for it,
or if you're just curious as how others have done it in the past, this is the place to discuss it!

Pre-production is the best way to make sure your post-production runs smoothly, but is often neglected.
The old saying "we'll fix that in post" should of course be replaced by "I'm glad we fixed that in pre" :D

[Hugh]

It's nice to see this forum here...

On my last film, I learnt (amongst other things) the value of pre-production when it comes to VFX - mainly by not really thinking too much about the VFX until we were actually shooting (okay, so only 2 weeks pre-production and me being the director too didn't help matters.....)

Anyway, I'm in discussion now about another project, which I'm looking to be (only) VFX Supervisor on... Loads of pre time on this one - will be shooting in October, so I'm certainly looking to learn from anyone who has anything to say....

[NumbGreenThumb]

From my experience, it is beneficial to pre-viz any effects shots if possible. Some rudamentry 3D mockups, etc.

The easiest FX shots are locked-off (of course they may not be that interesting). Get a a few seconds of a clean plate. This also applies to any green/blue screen shots that don't involve camera movement. You can always average those frames to try to difference matte or, if that doesn't work, at least you have clean plate to feed into your keyer if it supports it.

Next step, a simple pan. Make sure it's a nodal pan (center of lens over the tripod axis) to reduce parallox (not sure on that spelling). After that, it's free game as anything more will complicate matters extremely.

If you have the ability and resources, having a laptop w/ Shake on it might be useful on set. You could always create some rought comps and ensure things are going to line-up or are working.

That's all I can think of of. Good luck.

-Kyle

[Ysalamir]

I believe it's really, REALLY very important to be in constant contact with the person who'll be doing the effect. That is, the inferno artist, 3D artist, whatever. And it's very important to have their cell phone numbers with you :)
I always find it very helpful to talk to the operators all the time on a project before the shooting. Go with them on a shot by shot basis from the storyboards, ask if they need track points, green screens etc. This also reduces the risk of the artist saying "You couldn't get it right. Now we have a lot to do just because you guys messed up on set." If you ask him before the shoot, it's his responsibility, too. :)
In my old days as a post-producer, I would come on a project only after the shooting. And as you all know, the time spent on fixing and erasing unnecessary track points, green screens etc took a lot more time than the real necessary work. Now, I go to sets as well, and have much less to do in post-production just because of that. We all hate the term "we'll fix it in post" and if you're there, on the set with the producer, you can tell him how much it will actually cost him to fix it in post instead of spending an additional 8 minutes on set to fix it. However, we're all on the set with one goal in head. To get what the director wants in the quickest, cheapest and best way possible. To do that, we need to be cooperative. We need to be able to evaluate if it really IS easier to fix it in post. After all, we (post supervisors) are there to make things easier for the production, not make our job easier in post-production.

[arvid]

Yep, communication is extremely important, but the supervisor should have extensive experience of all aspects of post himself, he shouldn't have to ask the artists really, at least not after pre-production/pre-viz :)

[Ysalamir]

That depends on what kind of supervisor you are.
If you represent the post-production house on the set, yes. You shouldn't ask everythink to the compositors etc. A supervisor needs to be able to answer questions on the spot. It would look awkward if someone turns to him and asks something on the set and he goes "hold on a second" and grabs his phone, then something is wrong. :)

However, if you are a freelance supervisor hired by the production company or an inhouse supervisor who works with the production company, it's really important you ask many things to the post-house/compositor because once he gets the footage, he doesn't have the weapon of saying "you couldn't shoot it" as it is something you discussed with him and shot the way he wanted it. That way, you can stick with the budget you ok'd with the post-house before the project started, because you gave them everything the way they wanted it and cost them no extra work because of the production house's "stupidity".

Both supervisors and compositors/artists have excessive knowledge about visual effects. The main difference in my opinion is that, while the artist is responsible for doing the best work possible with the time given to him, the supervisor needs to weight cost/time/efficiency together and needs to think what's best for the PRODUCTION. A supervisor is a person who needs to decide what is easier. Do it practically on set, or fix it in post. And in both cases, how do we achieve the final illusion the best way it could be. So he/she needs to have experience on set also.

For example, Roland Emmerich would make an EXCELLENT supervisor if he weren't a director. For Independence Day, while every post house told them they were talking about very expensive shots for the fire sequences, Roland Emmerich himself came up with the idea of erecting city models vertically and shooting the model from the top while the flame comes towards the camera. He came up with a quick, efficient and much cheaper way to achieve the result.

[little_nicky]

Can we maybe get one of the guys from the big studios like Blur or ILM or Digital Anvil to give an article on one of their projects? I'd like to see how Digital Anvil planned for Wing Commander :)

O and don't forget Digital Domain!!!!

[stevenbray1]

"I'd like to see how Digital Anvil planned for Wing Commander"

Just so long as we don't have to watch the film again.

[Mutoscope]

In the opening shot of the new "oceans 12" trailer there is an impressive handheld VFX shot featuring an exploding car. I'm curious to hear how people think this shot was accomplished and/or how they would have approached the shot as the VFX Supervisor.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/oceans_12/trailer/

[stevenbray1]

Do the easiest way. Give it to the PHYSICAL FX guys to rig. :bot:

Seriously. The car is gutted, all the doors, panels, bonnet (hood), even the car itself are held in place with heavy steel wire so they wont fly too far and hit someone. Some small bombs or air morters (loaded with propane) provide the fire and smoke and the car is lifted using a wire or a lifting charge.

Mr Pitt can get within 20 feet in perfect safety.

At most, digital effects paints out a lifting wire (if one is used) to jerk the car up in the air.

[arvid]

Looks like a regular practical special fx shot to me

[gogofast]

yes, it's helpful for me. everybody here are my teachers.

[gogofast]

:stupid: hello , please tell me what kinds of tools should be taken when goto the VFX shotting area. I know some, digital cam, ruler, tracking marks,etc, what the others. are there some articles talking about how the VFX supervisor work??
thank u.

[jasonsco]

There are some articles on http://www.vfxsoup.com/ that have some good info on what other people bring to set.

When I go on set, I bring a lot of items with me. Here's some of them:
- VFX Camera Reports
- Digital Camera for reference photos (with extra memory cards and batteries)
- Protractor/Inclinometer
- Tracking Markers
- Light Meter
- Various colours of gaff tape
- First Aid Kit (I also serve sometimes as a safety supervisor, so it never hurts to have an extra around)
- Reading material for when there are shots with no FX
- My own folding chair and possibly folding table
- Water Bottle
- Copy of Script and Storyboards

Other helpful items can include a laptop computer (quick way to download images from digital camera), laser rangefinder (depending on size/scale of set), walkie-talkies, flashlights, filters, etc. It can all depend on whether you're shooting green/blue screen plates, exteriors, interiors, or HDR photography.

As for the way to work on set, while there are some good articles out there, sometimes it just takes experience. You'll start to learn what works best for whatever software you're using, how to interact with the director and cinematographer (making sure you get what you need to work on in post, but retaining the director and the cinematographer's vision), and how to balance your requirements for FX and the schedule with which the entire production needs to adhere to.

I hope that's all clear, but if not, let me know, and I'll try to clarify.

- Jason Scott

[gogofast]

that's all-around and helpful. I will read the articles first, if also have something not clear, I will tell u. partyman:
thank Jason.

[Legatronx]

:jawa:
Are visual effects supervisors saving time and money in the film industry?

[ronnie.s]

hey thats a grt place to discuss all pre & post stuff.
guys tell me what is perfect way prepare storyboard. that can help me by the time of shoot. bcoz u know at shoot there is time limit.and u have finish shoot as early as u can...

[ronnie.s]

hey thats a grt place to discuss all pre & post stuff.
guys tell me what is perfect way prepare storyboard. that can help me by the time of shoot. bcoz u know at shoot there is time limit.and u have finish shoot as early as u can...
:radar:

[CGnews]

have you checked out this tool bu atnics?

http://www.antics3d.com

its a easy to use, 3d pre-viz tool... helps to pull the storyboard togeather in a very intuitive way, seems very cool!

sorry cant help out with the more traditional solutions!

[Tano]

Hi Guys,

Which Chroma background would best fit a moving Car scene assuming it will be composited on a background? Our DOP keep on asking it to us VFX artists. The last time we suggested a blue Chroma, It was "lesser evil for our artists but the DOP said he experienced difficulty on the lighting and asking us if he could use white. What'd you say?

[stevenbray1]

No he can't use white.

Yes it's difficult. It's difficult for all DoP's. Doing day shots at night or night shots in the day or interiors which are meant to be exteriors or summer in winter etc. is all difficult too. Sorry, that's the job.

You pick green or blue, depending on whether you've got any/more green or blue in the foreground.

You also try and keep the foreground as far away from the screen as possible to reduce reflected green/blue spill on the forground.

And if the camera is going to move, put some tracking markers on the screen, so that at least a couple can always be seen through the camera.

[Pnagle]

It's nice to see this forum here...

On my last film, I learnt (amongst other things) the value of pre-production when it comes to VFX - mainly by not really thinking too much about the VFX until we were actually shooting (okay, so only 2 weeks pre-production and me being the director too didn't help matters.....)

Anyway, I'm in discussion now about another project, which I'm looking to be (only) VFX Supervisor on... Loads of pre time on this one - will be shooting in October, so I'm certainly looking to learn from anyone who has anything to say....

Were learning that right now on a project in production. Lack of pre-pro from the art department and even our own pre-pro on shaders and pipeline work. It is REALLY kicking us in the ass.

[ExP]

Continuing on the topic of the importance of Pre-production and meticulous planning... Check out this article:
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117965871.html?categoryid=13&cs=1

One of the factor that makes it always more difficult for VFX houses to meet increasingly tight deadlines, is also the inadequate attention producers give to planning for VFX.

[ammopreviz]

Noticed someone was chatting about Antics 3d, I've got some experience on this app.
here is my latest clip,
www.previz.com.au/ammo/lounge.html (http://www.previz.com.au/ammo/lounge.html)

Oh, I’ve got a blog for Antics 3d users also….
if anyone would like to share some tips.
www.antics3d.blogspot.com (http://www.antics3d.blogspot.com)

cheers
Tony@previz.com.au

[Jevon]

I have been reading most of the comments and it interreges me to hear what everyone has to say.
My career goal is to work on set as a VFX supervisor, is there any advice for me to get to that level?
Is there a particular field I should go in to set myself up for, like being a 3d generalist or working in the 2d department?

[ronnie.s]

yaa they save lot of time & money both

[Sniper-Viper]

I have been reading most of the comments and it interreges me to hear what everyone has to say.
My career goal is to work on set as a VFX supervisor, is there any advice for me to get to that level?
Is there a particular field I should go in to set myself up for, like being a 3d generalist or working in the 2d department?

I'd say that you should be a compositor to become a great Vfx Supervisor.
Also knowing a bit of matchmoving would help you ALOT!

[Jevon]

Thx, that helps a lot in my decision making, although I like doing 3D work but my real passion is to work on set where it all happens, doing VFX shots and setting it up.
I actually have an interview Monday for a jr. compositor position at CIS Vancouver :)

[Seriphu]

I too am aiming for a position in vfx supervision. I have experience in vfx supervision for indie films managing groups of 6 artists at max. Would those of you in that position say that experience at indie film level is in any way similar to that of feature length films?

[Andreas.Jablonka]

I too am aiming for a position in vfx supervision. I have experience in vfx supervision for indie films managing groups of 6 artists at max. Would those of you in that position say that experience at indie film level is in any way similar to that of feature length films?

sorry its by no means the same. You have hardly any preassure on indi sets and your somewhat important. on a real feature film your not. your a hassle to be dealt with ;)

[Gravy]

sorry its by no means the same. You have hardly any preassure on indi sets and your somewhat important. on a real feature film your not. your a hassle to be dealt with ;)

What about VFX heavy movies such as Iron Man or Avatar? Must get a bit more authority then :p.

[Andreas.Jablonka]

no. like sure the director talks to you but ONSET its all rush rush. why dont you think cleanplate only exist for student projects hehe

[reupalr]

hi,
i have been working as a sr. vfx supervisor for quite some time and i feel if you wanna be a vfx supervisor, you need to hae a strong background of compositing and creatives to call a shot.
though always been a inhouse vfx supervisor now i am trying to be on shoots and feel it wont be difficult.:)

[georgeivan]

I don´t like when directors change storyboards on set,i was vfx "supervisor" on some small commercials and its difficult some times.

Dealing with little stars its a pain in the ass.

Some people thinks that storyboards are little drawings to play ,nothing more.

Hope this things don´t exist in Hollywood

[Jevon]

hi,
i have been working as a sr. vfx supervisor for quite some time and i feel if you wanna be a vfx supervisor, you need to hae a strong background of compositing and creatives to call a shot.
though always been a inhouse vfx supervisor now i am trying to be on shoots and feel it wont be difficult.:)

Thanks, I graduated 6 months ago from the Art Institute and a friend offered me a VFX Supervisor position to do commercials and music videos, it's a small production company but it's a start and thanks for the advice. I wasn't sure to go to 2D or 3D but I think I'll do 2D (some rotoing) on the side.

[reupalr]

Thanks, I graduated 6 months ago from the Art Institute and a friend offered me a VFX Supervisor position to do commercials and music videos, it's a small production company but it's a start and thanks for the advice. I wasn't sure to go to 2D or 3D but I think I'll do 2D (some rotoing) on the side.

oh.. i c.
i feel its important that you get your hands on all different stages of vfx to complete a shot, from roto to cleanups , tracking, compositing, a bit of mattepainting and knowledge og motion gfx , an overview on 3d wud be gr8.:radar:

[Jevon]

oh.. i c.
i feel its important that you get your hands on all different stages of vfx to complete a shot, from roto to cleanups , tracking, compositing, a bit of mattepainting and knowledge og motion gfx , an overview on 3d wud be gr8.:radar:

Og motion gfx, can you please elaborate on these features?

[Gravy]

Og motion gfx, can you please elaborate on these features?

I don't wish to sound harsh... But, Do you really think you should be a supervisor if you don't know what motion graphics are? They generally have many years of experience, hence they can supervise.

[Jevon]

I don't wish to sound harsh... But, Do you really think you should be a supervisor if you don't know what motion graphics are? They generally have many years of experience, hence they can supervise.

No worries, you're just being honest. I misread his abbreviation, I thought he wrote; "og motion gfx". I was a Web/Graphic designer before I got into VFX, so it would be embarrassing if I didn't know what Motion Graphic is ;)

[georgeivan]

IMHO you should know everything at least here directors change things on set and sometimes they ask you for approval.

For me the big fights are regarding green screens,i try to get the best one without delaying the shots.

Also you should know a lot and i mean a lot about tracking,more than anything.

[reupalr]

No worries, you're just being honest. I misread his abbreviation, I thought he wrote; "og motion gfx". I was a Web/Graphic designer before I got into VFX, so it would be embarrassing if I didn't know what Motion Graphic is ;)
hi guys,
its my typing mistake.. its not "OG".. its on motion graphics...:D

[Backman]

For me the big fights are regarding green screens,i try to get the best one without delaying the shots.

Also you should know a lot and i mean a lot about tracking,more than anything.

Could you elaborate a bit about the less basic things one might need to know when supervising on set for tracking? I've done my fair share of tracking and it'd be interesting to hear it from your experience..