Salary of Digital Compositor in Toronto?

[MonkeyDo]

Hello,

Does anyone know what is the salary for a Flame artist / AE animator in Toronto, Canada?


ive been offered a job over there (i live in europe), and dont know the range of salaries there. (as you know well - they ask you what are my expectations....)

it's supposed to be in a medium+ size company, working mostly on TV commercials.



please help me!!!


thank you !
MonkeyDo.

[jayk2k]

Its really hard to judge, because it depends on so many things. What is your experinace level? What is the company size, and budget? I just took a position at core, and the salary is less than I would expect. I however said as much, and stipulated that my contract will be renegociated later this month.

I think straight out of school you could expect 35-40K a year, with a few years experience 50-60, Moderate experience should net you 60-80 and if you're the mac daddy of compositing, 80-100 with a larger facility.

[MonkeyDo]

just a few more questions?

are you speaking of the NET total (neto?) numbers? i mean, how high are the taxes in canada?

and what is the average living cost per month, for the average guy who would probably work there soon...

thank you very much.


MonkeyDo

[DarkAlien]

wow.. that sucks! lol

here in new york the going rate for fresh-out-of-school raping of the first years is like 250$/day -- again dependant on if you're good or not, but it works out to around 60k per year... and that's with no experiance... i've heard stories of flame/inferno guys pulling a grand a day... and other stories of AE freelancers pulling crazy money on bullshit jobs... it's all about how much you can squeeze out of the employer and how badly they want you...

[ShadowMaker SdR]

but then again in 2000 when I visited a friend who lived in a 40 square meter appartment he paid 2000 dollars a month on rent alone, so you'll need the 60K just to make ends meet. Unless you live with your parents of course :-)

Greetings

Sander de Regt

ShadowMaker SdR
Amsterdam
The Netherlands

[Aruna]

Originally posted by DarkAlien
i've heard stories of flame/inferno guys pulling a grand a day... and other stories of AE freelancers pulling crazy money on bullshit jobs... it's all about how much you can squeeze out of the employer and how badly they want you...

Goodness.. That'd be great if I was earning a grand a day. The problem with inferno and flame suites are that they run at around a grand or a little bit more a day, depending on the location of the studio, and the quality of work that the studio does. So I'm figuring a top of line inferno/flame guy might get 1/3 of that (cutting out overhead, studio electricity, etc), if s/he's really good. Also, it seems that some clients will go to the artist that they feel they get along with the best, not necessarily the work is the greatest. So often it would seem that clients will go to whichever company that artist is working at, at the moment. It's good to have a selection of clients that follow you from job to job, but I don't think that'll happen unless you're a very senior inferno/flame artist.

Of course, working freelance you'd be able to get a great contract and signing if you are worth it.

Hey Jason, how's Core treating you? You're working on the full length animated feature they're doing right? How's the comping on that, and are you doing it in DF? Feel free to PM me.

[jayk2k]

Nah they have me on a few other projects at the moment. 2 entirely differnt companies. Core DP (where I am) and Core Features.

Still Using DF Tho .... (Sweet)

[T_R]

Hey jayk2k,
I was wondering if I could ask a couple of questions. I too live in Toronto and have applied at CORE (among other places), I was just wondering how long it took you to get a job there, what type of experience you have and how many revisions of your demo reel did you go through before you got your first job. Anwsers to any of these questions would be greatly appreciated.
Thxs.

[jayk2k]

Oh boy... Where do I even start...

I went to BC to Vancouver film school for computer animation, and after graduation, i did maybe 4-6 months of unpaid internship doing cheezy corporate videos.

After that first year we started to land a few fx shots for tv shows like stargate sg-1 and poltergeist the legacy. This is where i learned digital fusion, and started compositing. After a year or so more, the work dried up, and i ended up moving back to toronto to my family. (sux having to move back in with your parents)

With what little reel I had at that point, I applied to a few places here and Film Effect hired me on because of my digital fusion experience. I was there for a year and a half, got a good amount of learning under my belt at that point, as opposed to flying by the seat of my pants. (or knickers in the U.K.)

I then bounced around a bit at a few other places, doing odds and ends, and eventually ended up working on a HD project for the discovery channel, which ended up getting me an emmy nomination.

After that work dried up, and it seemed there was nothing left in Toronto, I ended up working for eyeon (yeah, the guys who write digital fusion) I started doing basic tech support, and then moved on to the tips and tricks on their web site, to finally doing full fledged training and writing the courseware that shipped with DF4.

Then about 6 months back, Rainmaker in BC was desperate for DF people for a feature film they were working on, so I left eyeon to go work on Goodboy. 2 months back I got back to Toronto, and have been with core for a few weeks.

As far as my reel goes... It's been crap since day one... LOL I had some good stuff from BC (stargate etc.) but when i started at film effects, there was no facility to drop any of my film work to beta tape. So a lot of the stuff I worked on is on film only (now I can go back and get some of it off dvd) I've got a bit of the discovery stuff, and have yet to get any of the goodboy stuff. My reel has a few large holes in it, in that one place I worked for won't release the material i worked on, and then with eyeon, there was no content to work on.

Keep as much of your material as possible. These days it's a bit easier with cd burners, dvd etc. I've had to learn my lesson the hard way. I've had to take a more entry level position for the time being until I can prove my skills again.

That being said, I was waiting about a month to get into core, and i have about 8 years in the industry now.. All with Digital Fusion, but in my case it's worked out to be a good thing, because people with DF experience are becomming more in demand now that shake has left NT. Ultimately though, it's just a tool, and it's the concepts that end up getting the job done.

[Aruna]

Hey Jason! What class at VFS? I was a graduate from there back in 98. Very cool that there's another Emmy nominee here on the boards.

If you're ever in the Vancouver area again, I can give you the name of a couple good post edit houses that did my reel and film work conversions for me.

[jayk2k]

Ah round about 95/96 i think.. I was at the digipen campus, group # 39... Ah, the memories....

[T_R]

Thanks for all the info jayk2k, looks like you've had a wild ride!

I recently graduated from the Toronto Film school in 3d animation, (focusing in VFX). I realize that this industry is quite difficult to get into. I can see from your post you've had some ups and downs, which is natural, but seems to be more more common in this biz. I guess I'll keep pounding out new stuff and bombarding companies with new reels..maybe I'll annoy them into hiring me


Maybe you can have a peek at my reel and give me some feedback sometime..as soon as i can compress it down enough to post
Thanks again for sharing and taking the time to respond.

[nomad_girl]

hi everyone! i find this to be a very interesting thread and wanted to contribute a bit....

hello to jayk2k & aruna-- i too am a vfs grad-- i finished the 3d animation program this july and have completed a second film for a dance choreographer here in vancouver last week.

darkalien--- i am very curious about your post--i am in the process of making plans to return to the states and to try to get a job in new york---- sounds like the market is very good? i have seen several posts on job boards lately so it seems that there is alot of activity there? $250 a day-- you are talking about contract-- i assume? so going rate is about $30 an hour contract? is this average? (I am now speaking of $US) do you have any advice for someone about to enter this market? are most places primarily interested in contract work? are you recently out of school? where did you go?

however....... jayk2k, i am in talks with core feature right now about joining the team in toronto to work on the animated feature---so your perception of entry salary is about $35-$40? (of course now i am speaking $CAN). they are in the process of making the offer now-- so i do not know what it is yet-- will find out in a day or two--i have some experience (well- 6 mos- in broadcast) so i am wondering what they will offer-- do you find it a good place to work? i am thinking that the salary will be much less than what i can pull in ny -- BUT then as someone else in this post remarked-- ny is an incredibly expensive place to live.... and a job with core would be a way for me to get into the film industry... a difficult decision... was wondering what your take might be?

thanks for your time--

[DarkAlien]

nomad_girl:

well, the way the industry works in new york (as far as i've been invovlved in) is that mostly your first job you get is probly going to be political -- and by that i mean that you get the job because you were recommended by someone, or you know someone working there etc to give you a foot in the door...

i'm currently in school at the School of Visual Arts on 23rd street, and have been makin tons of connects with teachers who are all real effects artists like you and me *not full time teachers*. this is cool because they will hire you if you're good to do work for them or for their company... for instance i've been asked to go to RhinoFX for some extra work up there and have been referred for outside projects by my teacher who works there....

as far as salary goes; it's all negoticable based on the project and the type of position you will be... if you're a freelancer, or if you're going to be staff -- and the way inferno/flame works out here is that usually you're gonna have to climb the ranks to actually be a rich inferno/flame artist. start out doin AE/combustion support cleaning up mattes, and doin bitch work, then try and sit in as an apprentice or junior inferno/flame assistant, and eventually you climb up to be *the* artist.... takes some blood sweat and tears...

and for the market being good... well, it'll always be good if you're social and make alot of friends (friends = jobs) and if you're good at what you do (good = follow up jobs).. getting a gig isnt so much as hard as getting that company to love you and call you back (freelance) or hire you full time (if you wanna be staff)

ps: the figure of 250$/day is what my friends have told me once they graduated and are currently on their first jobs out of school -- granted, some are working at less, and a few others a tad more; all depends on the company, their job there, how good they are, and how badly they company needs them...

and yea as es-diar said, it IS fricken expensive here... a cheeseburger and fries at a diner is like 6-7 bucks, a six-pack of bottled beer at a corner deli (bodega) is 9-11$, and at a supermarket 7-10$ (domestic vs import)... 2 slices of pizza and a 16oz drink are 4 bucks MINIMUM (that's at the cheap place) and 6 bucks most other pizza places... a beer at a bar is anywhere from 5$ at the neighborhood bar to 8$ in a trendy place... gin&tonic is usually 6-8$ and a long island iced tea is 8-14$... rent sucks unless you live in brooklyn or queens -- or if you know a good real estate guy and live on the lower east side or the financial dist. then you might get a break... but honestly -- i absolutely love it here, and i'm determined to keep living here which means i'll have to keep paying for it and then i'll have to keep gettin the jobs to support it

[jayk2k]

Core features is for all intents and purposes a totally different company than core dp. All I can tell you is the guys here at core dp, are a pretty good crew all around, and it looks like the company is moving forward, which is always a good sign.

In Toronto, the food prices are similar as what dark alien posted for NY, but I think rent is going to be the big factor here. You should be able to find a decent bach/1bedroom near downtown for about 800-1000 a month. You could find something cheaper like a basement apt., or out in the burbs but add a lot of commute time.

Last I heard, a transit pass for the GTA is about 100 bucks a month, and if you live further out like oakville etc, a go pass (private transit co.) is about another 100 i think. Don't quote me on that last bit.

If you drive, parking downtown is anywhere from 7-10 bucks a day. so that adds up real fast. Add gas, at about 70 cents a litre (4 litres to a gallon) that's not cheap either.