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Bournemouth MA in Digital Effects –
February 25th, 2009,05:48 AM
Hi has anyone attended the Bournemouth University MA in Digital Effects or Msc in Computer Animation & Visual Effects? What I heard from a friend who went there said you don't need to have a degree to apply to the masters program but even a diploma would do with good portfolio work and I believe you need to have some working experience? Would like to know about this. Thanks.
February 25th, 2009,08:26 AM
Yeah i too heard in similar way but i hope someone know more detail on that Course details, anyone here ???
Hi there,
I am Programme Leader for MA Digital Effects at Bournemouth University. If you would like to find out about the entry requirements for our Masters Programmes, please follow one of these links:
http://ncca.bournemouth.ac.uk/ (National Centre for Computer Animation)
http://courses.bournemouth.ac.uk/Course.aspx?course=101 (MA Digital Effects)
http://courses.bournemouth.ac.uk/Course.aspx?course=99 (MA 3D Computer Animation)
http://courses.bournemouth.ac.uk/Course.aspx?course=498 (Msc Computer Animation & Visual Effects)
These links will give you a formal overview of the programmes we offer and our department. We also have several more informal web links which include student work:
http://www.youtube.com/user/NCCADigitalFX
http://www.youtube.com/user/ncca3D
http://nccastaff.bournemouth.ac.uk/jmacey/
We have some discretionary powers for applicants without degrees who wish to study with us. Generally this equates to a suitable level of professional practice / industrial experience complimented by a strong art based portfolio.
Kind regards,
Phil.
Thanks for replying Phil!, its great to see some of the BU Faculty on here. I am planning to join BU for the Digital Effects cource in September.
I just have a few questions (if its okay for me to ask them directly here) i just feel that it would be of help for other prospective students aswell.
Firstly,
Whats the basic difference between the 3d Computer Animation Program & the Digital Effects program, i take it that the 3d program will be more character animation oriented?
2. Like mentioned on the site Houdini & Shake are primarily taught in the MADE cource, will there be other softwares like maya and nuke touched on aswell? And can the student choose the software he would like to specialize in or is it a fixed cirriculum?
3. Could you discuss the cirriculum a little of what will be taught in the MADE cource.
Thanks and looking forward for your reply.
Regards
Whats the basic difference between the 3d Computer Animation Program & the Digital Effects program, i take it that the 3d program will be more character animation oriented?
MA3D is for people interested primarily in developing their animation skills. This is usually character based, and many projects have a 'Pixar' feel to them.
MA Digital Effects combines 3D, 2D and video based acquistion. We focus on the combination of these elements to produce photoreal integation of computer graphics into shot footage. Due to the teachers currently on MADE there is a distinct Fine Art underpinning to everything we do, which is now being formally recognised and supported by both academia and the industry.
MScCAVE is more for tool builders and programmers who are interested in the higher level technical side of computer graphics. This programme generally accepts people from a maths / science background whereas MA3D and MADE accept mainly artists from other subjects wanting to learn this discipline.
2. Like mentioned on the site Houdini & Shake are primarily taught in the MADE cource, will there be other softwares like maya and nuke touched on aswell? And can the student choose the software he would like to specialize in or is it a fixed cirriculum?
Currently: MADE == Houdini/Shake/PFTrack. MA3D == XSI/Nuke/ZBrush. MScCAVE == C++/Maya/Renderman/Houdini/Nuke. Each programme uses the software most relevant to the subject area. Our aim is not to teach software but all of the transferable skills which will allow a user to happily migrate between any software presented to them in industry.
For MADE we get the best and fastest results using Houdini which in turn allows us to teach more about the subject of Digital Effects (remember we only have one year to teach you enough to survive and thrive in this industry). Maya is not fast enough for what we do, and is not really procedural in the way Houdini is. Also Houdini has better paradigms for teaching computer graphics to artists, and Mantra (its native renderer) is superb and easily as good as Renderman (plus Mantra shaders and materials in Houdini are developed in exactly the same way as Renderman - again a transferable skill). Similarly XSI is used by MA3D simply because it is the fastest package to learn animation on. MScCAVE tends not to look at software from an artists sensibility but from a programmers point of view where the real mechanics of the software are examined. If you want to learn the ins and outs of a .rib file then the MScCAVE is for you...
We have a group project in Term 2 where all courses work together. During this project students tend to get exposed to the other software simply because other group members are using it. Generally though each class stays with their own package throughout the duration of the course. As mentioned, this industry is not about software but about transferable skills and this is what we teach.
At present we are trialling Nuke on the MScCAVE and MA3D as their compositing teaching is significantly less than what we teach on MADE. Our departmental compositing tutor still recommends Shake over Nuke for those new to the subject of compositing. On MADE we do have an intro to Nuke after the Shake teaching has finished. Houdini is also taught on the MScCAVE & BACVA programmes but not to the same depth as on MADE. Students also currently have access to Massive and Realflow for project work if required.
3. Could you discuss the cirriculum a little of what will be taught in the MADE cource.
We teach Digital Effects through the use of 3D, 2D and Acquistion teaching. This includes practical and theory based lessons. An overview of the cirriculum is documented on our programme content web page listed in my earlier posting... the results of the curriculum can be seen on our You Tube site. The rest I will share when I see your application!
I hope this helps you...
More info about Bournemouth, NCCA Masters Programmes, and MA Digital Effects –
February 27th, 2009,11:58 AM
I did post last night but it hasn’t gone through... second time lucky...
1. Whats the basic difference between the 3d Computer Animation Program & the Digital Effects program, i take it that the 3d program will be more character animation oriented?
MA Digital Effects is more for those wanting to work on high end effects sequences for movies. We combine filmed acquisition footage with 3D elements using a 2D compositing package. We look more at procedural animation, particle systems, dynamics, light matching, camera matching, photo-real shading and rendering etc.
MA3D is more for those wanting to animate. This usually takes the form of character animation although the programme is not limited to this. Projects from MA3D tend to have a 'Pixar' look and feel to them. This programme is generally for those wanting to learn rigging, character modelling, and character animation. There is scope on MADE to do character work; however it is not formally taught in the way MA3D teach the subject.
We have also seen a narrative paradigm shift for MADE over the past few years. In the past students would come to us wanting to make Lord of the Rings 4, and would generate poorly constructed epic narratives on which they would attempt to pin some effects work. This has now changed in favour of students producing non-narrative (or rather implied narrative) pieces. This is simply to allow students to concentrate more on the visuals rather than getting weighed down by an overly complex storyline or the self perpetuated uniqueness of their own ‘vision’. MA3D does however still embrace traditional narratives in its teaching for project work.
MScCAVE is for those who want to look under the hood of this technology at how it is constructed. It is orientated towards converting scientists and mathematicians into Programmers and TDs. If you are into higher level programming (or think you could be), then this is the course for you... MA3D and MADE on the other hand generally take artists from other disciplines wanting to get into this subject area. Last year however we had a stunning student on MADE who came to us from a first class BSc programming background simply because they wanted to learn about aesthetics to a similar level. If people demonstrate the correct aptitude we will let them on our programmes even if they are from a different background. Students have come to us from Graphic Design, Photography, Fine Art, Fashion, Architecture and Film Making backgrounds for example.
MADE (due to the teachers who work on it) also now has a distinct Fine Art underpinning which is being formally recognised and praised by both academia and industry. We really are into the examination, implementation and dissection of higher level photo-real aesthetics and photo-real abstraction; far more so than the other two programmes.
2. Like mentioned on the site Houdini & Shake are primarily taught in the MADE cource, will there be other softwares like maya and nuke touched on aswell? And can the student choose the software he would like to specialize in or is it a fixed cirriculum?
Firstly, let me clarify that we are not a software training facility. Our purpose is to teach solid transferable skills of a specific subject.
Each programme uses the most appropriate software for its subject discipline. [I]Software is specific to the programme for practical teaching reasons. Students will learn and stick with the software specific to their programme as it forms a fair benchmark for assessing students work relative to each other. All programmes teach software from scratch at a rapid pace, because all of our Masters programmes accept students with no CG experience.
On MADE we use Houdini simply because the other packages are not fast enough in terms of workflow, openness and logic. The programme lasts one year and therefore our aim is to teach you as much as possible as fast as possible in terms of transferable skills for a successful career. Houdini is the best package for this reason. Its open architecture and procedural philosophy really does open up the nuances of computer graphics and Digital Effects work far faster than XSI and Maya. Its native renderer is as good as Renderman, and its internal shader writing architecture is identical to Renderman. With Houdini students get a lot of really powerful transferable skills very quickly.
For compositing we currently use Shake. Again this is the fastest package to learn for someone new to compositing. We do have an introduction to Nuke after the core Shake teaching has finished. We have also been trialling Nuke this year on MA3D and MScCAVE as their compositing teaching is much less than what we teach on MADE. Our departmental compositing lecturer still however recommends Shake over Nuke (but does say Nuke is great for those already with a solid basis of compositing knowledge). We also currently use PFTrack, Boujou and 3DE for tracking.
Similarly, MA3D uses XSI because it is the fastest package to learn to animate on. As well as Nuke they use ZBrush too.
Generally those who come to MADE with other 3D software experience moan and gripe for a few weeks about having to use Houdini but rapidly convert when they see how quickly and cleanly they can generate high end work using it. Their conversion is also sparked when they see how quickly their classmates without any CG experience develop and grow using Houdini. For some reason traditional artists, film makers and photographers without CG experience get on with Houdini far quicker than those who come to us other with prior 3D software experience. This is usually because hobbyists learning CG under their own steam do so badly, or they come to us from another establishment which has taught them poorly.
One of our students last year came to us as a die hard Maya user, converted to Houdini by the end of Term 1, and left as a passionate Houdini user. He then went on to do an internship at Side Effects Software (the makers of Houdini). His Houdini skills are now highly sort after and he really has the pick of the job offers. This has happened to MADE students on many, many occasions over the years. Most of our graduates end up being employed, and a lot of our graduates go on to use Houdini in their careers…
MScCAVE uses the biggest suite of software (Maya predominantly, some Houdini, a little bit of Nuke, Renderman, some Maya API, lots of C++); however the approach used is more of technical examination rather than artistic sensibilities. If you want to learn the ins and outs of a .rib file, then MScCAVE is for you… generally students on this programme learn how to make the tools that the artists from MADE and MA3D then go onto implement.
All programmes also currently have access to Realflow and Massive (thanks to some generous donations by the software manufacturers).
3. Could you discuss the cirriculum a little of what will be taught in the MADE cource.
The Masters programmes run for almost an entire year (Oct to Aug). On MADE (as with the other programmes) we teach everything from scratch. Over the first term students make the Underwater Landscape project to give them a foundation of all core Digital Effects skills and tools. They shoot acquisition footage, generate 3D elements and composite everything together in 2D. The results of the Underwater Projects from the last three years can be seen on our You Tube site. While this is the main focus for Term 1, this project is supported by three other smaller assessments (an essay, a production diary, and a mediation of the Underwater Project).
In Term 2, there is the Group Project. Students from all three Masters programmes will form groups with each other and generate a self determined project. Group work allows our students to begin specialising if they choose (for example a student may elect to be the lead compositor in their group). As each programme uses different software, part of the fun/headache for students is working out how to translate assets between the various packages. The group project sees everyone dip into each others main software packages at some point. This again is to give students transferable skills, and to remove the fear of ‘other’ software packages. MADE students learn higher level Digital Effects Techniques (in 3D, 2D, & Acquisition) throughout the term which may or may not be applicable to their group project work.
In Term 3 on MADE we asked students to make an individual localised technically correct Digital Effects piece to prove they are ready to attempt their Masters Project. These generally are smaller more bespoke projects that require the students to focus on a very specific set of Digital Effects Techniques. Along side this are two shared Units (Moving Image Theory (which runs throughout Terms 1, 2 & 3), and Personal Inquiry) which all three programmes participate in. There are also shared lectures on Maths, and common CG Basics (for example Pipelining or Lighting) which run throughout all three terms. Also too, every Friday throughout Terms 1, 2, & 3, a visiting speaker from industry will come down to Bournemouth to speak to our students (as part of the Moving Image Theory Unit).
At the end of Term 3, all students take part in a symposium to share the research they have undertaken as part of the Personal Inquiry Unit. The end of Term 3 also sees the end of the teaching for all programmes. This is a short term relative to the first two, and on MADE we teach shader writing and more high level Digital Effects Techniques.In Term 4 (subject to students passing successfully all components of the first three terms), students do their Masters Projects. This is a 12 week project and students demonstrate their ability to produce a significant piece of Digital Effects work through independent work and study.
I have posted two replies however they are awaiting moderator approval... both say pretty much the same thing.
Hi, I did post last night but it hasn’t gone through... second time lucky...
1. Whats the basic difference between the 3d Computer Animation Program & the Digital Effects program, i take it that the 3d program will be more character animation oriented?
MA Digital Effects is more for those wanting to work on high end effects sequences for movies. We combine filmed acquisition footage with 3D elements using a 2D compositing package. We look more at procedural animation, particle systems, dynamics, light matching, camera matching, photo-real shading and rendering etc.
MA3D is more for those wanting to animate. This usually takes the form of character animation although the programme is not limited to this. Projects from MA3D tend to have a 'Pixar' look and feel to them. This programme is generally for those wanting to learn rigging, character modelling, and character animation. There is scope on MADE to do character work; however it is not formally taught in the way MA3D teach the subject.
We have also seen a narrative paradigm shift for MADE over the past few years. In the past students would come to us wanting to make Lord of the Rings 4, and would generate endless poorly constructed epic narratives on which they would attempt to pin some effects work. This has now changed in favour of students producing non-narrative (or rather implied narrative) pieces. This is simply to allow students to concentrate more on the visuals rather than getting weighed down by an overly complex storyline or the self perpetuated uniqueness of their own ‘vision’. MA3D does however still embrace traditional narratives for projects in its teaching.
MScCAVE is for those who want to look under the hood of this technology at how it is constructed. It is orientated towards converting scientists and mathematicians into Programmers and TDs. If you are into higher level programming (or think you could be), then this is the course for you... MA3D and MADE on the other hand take artists from other disciplines wanting to get into this subject area. Last year we had a student on MADE who came to us from a first class BSc programming background simply because they wanted to learn about aesthetics to a similar level.
MADE (due to the teachers who work on it) also now has a distinct Fine Art underpinning which is being formally recognised and praised by both academia and industry. We really are into the examination, implementation and dissection of higher level photo-real aesthetics and photo-real abstraction, far more so than the other two programmes.
2. Like mentioned on the site Houdini & Shake are primarily taught in the MADE cource, will there be other softwares like maya and nuke touched on aswell? And can the student choose the software he would like to specialize in or is it a fixed cirriculum?
Firstly, let me clarify that we are not a software training facility. Our purpose is to teach solid transferable skills.
Each programme uses the most appropriate software for its subject discipline. Software is specific to the programme for practical teaching reasons. Students will learn and stick with the software specific to their programme as it forms a fair benchmark for assessing students work relative to each other. All programmes teach software from scratch at a rapid pace, because all of our Masters programmes accept students with no CG experience.
On MADE we use Houdini simply because the other packages are not fast enough in terms of workflow, openness and logic. The programme lasts one year and therefore our aim is to teach you as much as possible as fast as possible in terms of transferable skills for a successful career. Houdini is the best package for this reason. Its open architecture and procedural philosophy really does open up the nuances of computer graphics and Digital Effects work far faster than XSI and Maya. Its native renderer is as good as Renderman, and its internal shader writing architecture is identical to Renderman. With Houdini students get a lot of really powerful transferable skills very quickly.
For compositing we currently use Shake. Again this is the fastest package to learn for someone new to compositing. We do have an introduction to Nuke after the core Shake teaching has finished. We have also been trialling Nuke this year on MA3D and MScCAVE as their compositing teaching is significantly less than what we teach on MADE. Our departmental compositing lecturer still however recommends Shake over Nuke (but does say Nuke is great for those already with a solid basis of compositing knowledge). We also currently use PFTrack, Boujou and 3DE for tracking.
Similarly, MA3D uses XSI because it is the fastest package to learn to animate on. As well as Nuke they use ZBrush too.
Generally those who come to MADE with other 3D software experience moan and gripe for a few weeks about having to use Houdini but rapidly convert when they see how quickly and cleanly they can generate high end work using it. Their conversion is also sparked when they see how quickly their classmates without any CG experience develop and grow using Houdini. For some reason artists without CG experience get on with Houdini far quicker than those who come to us other with 3D software experience. This is usually because hobbyists learning CG under their own steam do so badly, or they come to us from another establishment which has taught them poorly.
One of our students last year came to us as a die hard Maya user but left as a passionate Houdini convert, and then went on to do an internship at Side Effects Software (the makers of Houdini). His Houdini skills are now highly sort after and he really has the pick of the job offers. This has happened to MADE students on many, many occasions over the years. Most of our graduates end up being employed, and a lot of our graduates go on to use Houdini in their careers…
MScCAVE uses the biggest suite of software (Maya predominantly, some Houdini, a little bit of Nuke, Renderman, some Maya API, lots of C++); however the approach used is more of technical examination rather than artistic sensibilities. If you want to learn the ins and outs of a .rib file, then MScCAVE is for you… generally students on this programme learn how to make the tools that the artists from MADE and MA3D then go onto implement.
All programmes also currently have access to Realflow and Massive (thanks to some generous donations by the software manufacturers).
3. Could you discuss the cirriculum a little of what will be taught in the MADE cource.
The Masters programmes run for almost an entire year (Oct to Aug). On MADE (as with the other programmes) we teach everything from scratch. Over the first term students make the Underwater Landscape project to give them a foundation of all core Digital Effects skills and tools. They shoot acquisition footage, generate 3D elements and composite everything together in 2D. The results of the Underwater Projects from the last three years can be seen on our You Tube site. While this is the main focus for Term 1, this project is supported by three other smaller assessments (an essay, a production diary, and a mediation of the Underwater Project).
In Term 2, there is the Group Project. Students from all three Masters programmes will form groups with each other and generate a self determined project. Group work allows our students to begin specialising if they choose (for example a student may elect to be the lead compositor in their group). As each programme uses different software, part of the fun/headache for students is working out how to translate assets between the various packages. The group project sees everyone dip into each others main software packages at some point. This again is to give students transferable skills, and to remove the fear of ‘other’ software packages. MADE students learn higher level Digital Effects Techniques (in 3D, 2D, & Acquisition) throughout the term which may or may not be applicable to their group project work.
In Term 3 on MADE we asked students to make individual localised technically correct Digital Effects pieces to prove they are ready to attempt their Masters Project. These generally are smaller more bespoke projects that require the students to focus on a very specific set of Digital Effects Techniques. Along side this are two shared Units (Moving Image Theory (which runs throughout Terms 1, 2 & 3), and Personal Inquiry) which all three programmes participate in. There are also shared lectures on Maths, and common CG Basics (for example Pipelining or Lighting) which run throughout all three terms. Also too, every Friday throughout terms 1, 2, & 3, a visiting speaker from industry will come down to Bournemouth to speak to our students (as part of the Moving Image Theory Unit).
At the end of Term 3, all students take part in a symposium to share the research they have undertaken as part of the Personal Inquiry Unit. The end of Term 3 also sees the end of the teaching for all programmes. This is a short term relative to the first two, and on MADE we teach shader writing and the highest level Digital Effects Techniques.
In Term 4 (subject to students passing successfully all components of the first three terms), students do their Masters Projects. This is a 12 week project and students demonstrate their ability to produce a significant piece of Digital Effects work through independent work and study.
Ok quick reply works rather than the Post Reply option...
No doubt the above message will get posted again twice when approved by the moderators. The moderated reply says the same as above, and I apologise if the reply gets posted mulitple times!
Thanks phil for such useful information on BU. It really helped to make my decision.
Can you explain in terms of portfolio which one has to submit along with their application form and what you expect from a applicant who's having previous CG experience ?
It would be great if you can put some light on it.
Last edited by rebolt; February 28th, 2009 at 02:45 AM.
Wow thats a great long read, Phil Spicer. Thats a lot of useful information there. Made me clearer on what bournemouth masters is about. Thanks.
Originally Posted by rebolt
Would be great to know this as well. Like for a diploma holder with some CG experience.
Thanks for the extensive explanation Phil! Replied back to you, please check your msg inbox on here :-)
The whole description for the programs is very helpful. Still I have some questions and if you could give me some advices I would really appreciate it!
My background consists of a bachelor degree in Computer Science of 5 years with scattered knowledge of programing languages as C, C++, Java, SQL, etc...
I like best the visual part of things and would love to study something related to animation and visual effects but I have no experience with any of the animation programs, only attempts of using Maya, some Flash and Photoshop. Now the actual questions:
1.Which program could best suite me for the background I have and not wanting to get stuck on scripting all the time.
2. Could I evolve with the knowledge from MScCAVE (not having a portfolio and enough knowledge to create one I can only apply for this program) to actual animation and visual effects? Meaning not only implementing tools and scripts but doing something more artistic, working on actual project for movie, shading, lightning, working with visual tools and not only code?
Thanks in advance!
If you have a background of Computer Science and knowledge of C, C++, Java, SQL etc. then the MScCAVE Programme will be the most appropriate programme for you especially if you don't have any formal art training.
There is provision within the MScCAVE Programme for students to start learning the more creative aspects of CGI; however the main thrust of the programme is orientated towards the under the hood technical stuff. There is however the Group Project which is a cross programme project shared with MADE & MA3D. This gives the MScCAVE students an opportunity to explore the more creative aspects of production and give them a useful creative piece for their portfolio to enhance their technical work.
An example of this can be seen in the 0809 Group Project ‘Cycle’. This was created by three MADE students and one MScCAVE student. We deliberately encouraged the MSc student to model, rig and animate a creature, so that his personal showreel would encompass more than the technical/programming side of production. The ‘Cycle’ project can be seen here:
The MSc student was primarily responsible for the lizards, and collaboratively helped a MADE student with the L-System tree growth, and other elements such as design and lighting.
In the same way, we have had students on MADE & MA3D who have come from a computer science / programming background, who come to us deliberately wanting to learn more about the visual side of production. They have however come to us with an art based portfolio to compliment their programming portfolio. We assess them very thoroughly at interview stage to ensure that they are clear about the programme they are applying for and whether or not the MScCAVE Programme would be the better option for them.
Those who make it through this interview stage tend to be a great asset to MADE & MA3D classrooms as invariably they will trade technical experience with the artistic experiences brought by their classmates in order to facilitate their learning.
An example of this can be seen here:
This project was created by someone who came from a computer science / programming background studying on the MADE Programme; and this project was also supplemented by the work of a MA3D student who also had a similar technical background (who was responsible for the crowd simulation).
Ironically however, both of these students have now gone onto very technical industrial roles such as pipelining and effects technical development.
Similarly we have students on both MADE & MA3D who come purely from fine art backgrounds and in the short time of the programme have successfully navigated into the programming / technical RnD side of things. An example of this can be seen here:
This student developed a very clever procedural rolling mechanism for the bricks so that they would automatically pick other bricks up and continue rolling without the need for keyframe animation. He also really got to grips with CGI Python programming. Despite coming from a Fine Art background, he too has now found his niche in this side of the industry, and this is the point of such a detailed response…
You are what you are. Nothing will change that. Our programmes here will simply enhance what you are, and demonstrate to you what you are not. What you think you are, or what you think you would like to become are not necessarily the same thing as what you actually are. Whatever programme you apply for will point this out to you immediately. If we recognise you as a natural MScCAVE student or a natural MADE or MA3D student we will point you in that direction even if you cannot yet see this in yourself.
When you study here, we want you to push the boundaries of what you are into new directions in order for you to become a more rounded and experienced professional; however you will remain at your core what you actually are.
When industry gets hold of you, you will have what you are reinforced to you by the jobs a company will be prepared to offer you. If you have navigated your studies with us well, the additional experiences, be they artistic or technical, will allow you to shape and choose a career path that hones in on what you are with even more clarity.
Whatever your aspirations, at the end of the day you have to accept your place within a larger system if you enter into the industry. If you allow yourself to accept what you are, and where your strengths are, the place that you will find in the industry will be the right place for you, and you will have a happy and successful career as a result.
Remember it is not where you start that matters, but where you finish…
I hope that helps…
Kind regards,
Phil.
July 8th, 2009,06:14 AM
Well said.You are what you are. Nothing will change that. Our programmes here will simply enhance what you are, and demonstrate to you what you are not. What you think you are, or what you think you would like to become are not necessarily the same thing as what you actually are.
Appreciate you taking the time phil.
b
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