Animation Mentors / Daveschool Need Feedback.

[combustion007]

Hello,

I am very new to compositing but have been working with MAYA for about a year in my spare moments. By profession, I am a programmer but always wanted to work in the visual effect/3d industry. I have been thinking about going to a VFX/3d School, the schools I have checked out so far are:

Dave School, Orlando $29000 12 months
Animationmentor.com $15000 18 months

I would like to know if anyone have any feedback on above mentioned school? I would really appreciate your input.

Thanks.

[mttjss]

hey man.
I am in AM right now. For animation its the best(along with Ringling and CalArts). I went through a 3 yr BFA with Maya and I have learned 10x more at AM in 5 months.
If animation is what you want to do - mainly character animation - I would say AM.
I think Daves school is a more generalized where you learn a little about everything. This is good for smaller studios, but video games and film should be a more specific focus.

If you really want to do VFX/SFX, I wouls say Vancouver Film School or Gnomon or something like that. There is a few others but its midnight here.

Hope that helps.

Matt -

[elena250]

Do you think VFS is too expensive? Is it worth it? For spending that kind of money are you better off getting a degree at a 4 year school? Anyone have any recent knowledge of VFS and how they're doing with VFX?

[mttjss]

Well as far as a 4 yr degree goes I am a perfect person to share my experience.
I did a 4 yr (3+ actually) for a BFA in Computer animation. Was a TOTAL waste of my time and money..heres why.
Maybe if I had been more focused on school, my CG stuff would have been better.
Maybe if my teachers were more experienced in animation it would have been better.

With a 4 yr degree, you do get a more broad focus than just the skill you are looking for. You have all of the Gen-Ed classes to fill. Maybe someplace like SCAD or Ringling or AAU which has proven mentors would be a better fit than the one I went to.

In the end the degree is nothing unless you decide to go on to teach or you want to work towards a Master. In this industry its all about the demo reel.
All of the schooling in the world is not gonna land you that job w/out a standout demo reel. I am proof of that. That is why I took on more debt to go through AnimationMentor. I knew the focus and the attitude was awesome there and animation was all I was learning.

I would definitely say research the area you want to get into. Make sure the school has a good reputation for this stuff and you can handle the tuition. But DEFINITELY - make sure you put the time and effort into every project. It will be a blessing in the end.

Anyone else have anything to add?

Matt -

[mboden]

I think that gnomon might be the right fit you. Are you self taught programmer or did you recieve a degree from a school in programming? I ask because it also has to do with what your education goals are as well. If you want an advanced degree, consider a 3 year MFA program. The real goal is a solid demo reel. I post this question every time but I think it helps. What asecpt of 3D VFX do you like (Modeling, Animation, Lighting, Rendering, Comping)?

[mbenard]

Just so you know all your options you should at least check out my website before you make any serious commitments.

www.lostboys-learning.com (based on today's currency exchange, 15,980.09 USD)

You can also do a search on this site for Lost Boys and you should find a bit more info.

Let me know if you have any questions.

M

[mttjss]

sorry Mark - when I mentioned VFS/RIngling & other - I waslatalking about Lost Boys.
I have seen some really good stuff coming out of this school and if you want to go the way of FX and Compositing and such, then definitely consider Lost Boys.

Matt -

[combustion007]

Thank you for your feedback. Here is my situation:

During my first college year (majoring in music), I realized that I was not made out for this structured educational path. Since I was paying for my own education, I always felt that taking useless electives was just waste of time. So I dropped out and then somehow ended up in a well known programming school. Well, that didn't workout to well because teachers were then teaching COBOL and were downright as if they are doing charity work. After the first semester of programming, administration decided that I was too dumb to be in IT Field. But the first semester did cost me good $15000 in student loan.

Well anyway, I ended up learning Java and C++ on my own (thanks to forums and those books for dummies), it was very hard to find that first job, I had to lie to get my foot in the door but as the time passed on, I picked up more and more.

Now I work as a JAVA developer, it pays the bills but hardly stimulates creative me. I tried to go back finish up my undergrad but this time around I knew somewhat more than the professors which didn't turn out awright at the end, and there went my efforts to finishing up school out the door.

Not having a degree has certainly held my career back as a developer. Although, I have years of solid experience as a Java Developer, but when I try to apply for positions with consultancies such as Deloitte, or Booze & Allen, I don't even get an interview due to not having a bachelors. And the consultancies that I currently am employed by don't compensate so well.

I have always enjoyed doing 3d and currently exploring the possibilities of working in the CG industry, but since I don't have any solid experience, It would be impossible to land a position in the field. I certainly can pay for the schools, but I don't want to repeat what happened back in that programming school.


(THIS IS MERELY AN OPINION, I DON'T MEAN TO START A WAR WHETHER GNOMON DVDS ARE A GOOD OR NOT)

By the way, I did invest close $2000 into Gnomon Maya DVDs but found Alex Alvarez to be very monotonous. And watching those DVD s on a high definition TV can be a disappointment , because the video quality appears a bit distorted, and one can hardly make out the MAYA graphical interface due to that distorted quality.

Perhaps I have shared too much, but I always had thought that by having experience certainly can help and I wish it was entirely true (my opinion again). That reel certainly can get you to places, and I would love to be able to create that reel but just don't know how.

Thanks a lot.
combustion007

[mttjss]

well I understand about investing too much into a school with no return. I di this for animation and I will be paying school loans for a long time to come.
But again, its not just about the school but what you put into it. I am learning that now.

As far as the Gnomon discs go, I have quite a few of them myself. I feel I actually learned a ton from them. Even though I coudlnt see them to well, I listened and took notes for what they were saying. Maybe that explains why I like podcasts so much.

If going the way of books and learning on your own works, I would say stick to that first. Maybe doing that you can start to see what areas you like, and then dig deeper into them. Had I done this, I would have seen that there was a lot more to CG than just animation, I probably would have found places like vfxtalk and cgtalk and I would have chosen a school based on quality rather than location and I might not have gone to school at all, but learned on my own.

Good luck with whatever you choose, and be patient. It will work itself out.

Matt -

[maynard]

a good friend of mine is taking the animation mentors classes. I think that its a winner.

(And im in that business, so you know it has some merit)

Good results from the lessons. I see major improvements in his work, and have now hired him to work for me.

again, my two cents. I dont know the dave guys.

-c

[mbenard]

I'll agree with Maynard, if you KNOW you want to be a CHARACTER ANIMATOR, Animation Mentor is the best option I've seen.

BUT if you want explore VISUAL EFFECTS you'll need to look elsewhere.

Probably a safe bet to follow Matt's advice and do a little more self exploration through books and the Forums. It's a huge cash outlay so it's time well spent to have a clear career goal in mind before you take the plunge.

And in my 10+ years experience running Lost Boys I was never once concerned if any of our Applicants had a Degree or not. The hiring process was based on having both an amazing demo reel and a solid personality. I should also note that any of my staff that did earn a Degree had to follow up with additional specialized training before they would have qualified.

And yeah the Gnomon DVD's are good, I have several thousand invested in them for our library, I find them best when you can use them in context for a specific project. (One bite at a time...) If you try to sit down and absorb everything in one go your brain will liquify.

Also I'm sure Maynard could recommend some decent Fusion Training videos if you plan to explore Compositing. We found them pretty handy as well.

Good luck,

M

[combustion007]

Thank you so much for all your feedback.

Hello Mark,

Had you not suggested, I wouldn't have found out about Lost Boys....thank you. I think it offers a fantastic learning environment. I am actually considering taking trip out to check the school in person in near future.

Thanks.